Marriage And Money - Dave Ramsey Rant
Nor do most men. Men choose women based on how those women make them feel. You have money. A high-school history teacher and soccer coach who has a Masters degree.
He has his summers off, a pension, and is home before 5pm every day. He is fit, world-travelled, and fascinating. Choose one of them. A user-interface designer for a biotech company. He makes six figures. The teacher is the man who married my Georgetown law educated cousin. The user-interface guy is the man who married my Duke educated sister. I really like him as a person, but at my age, I almost feel the practical thing to do would be to cut him loose so he can mature up a bit and have a better idea of direction of his life.
Great post EMK. Even when a guy is a couple of years younger than the woman problems can occur. The reason why is, whether we like it or not, the man is seen as the default breadwinner and needs to push himself as such and women are simply more mature, especially emotionally, than a man. Women have a several year headstart on men in that regard.
The only maturity difference I see between genders is in high-school. Just in different ways. Neither are exactly the sharing or thoughtful type. I was once responsible for leading an all-male team and the ones who gave everyone the biggest grief were the oldest of the group. The youngest were the kindest and the most responsible. Luckygal has a different lifestyle ideal compared to her boyfriend.
Dating financially unstable man
Some people are very satisfied with a bare-bones, modest lifestyle. Some will change, some will not. As he is young, he may develop better approaches to paying off debt and job consistency, but there is no guarantee his ambition will extend beyond a simple life. Allow me to rephrase: I just think we give women as a group too much credit for being emotionally mature beyond their years, because society perceives them as biologically ready to breed once they hit Guilty as charged.
However, upon an intimate relationship, it is an entirely different story. We can be immature at handling personal arguments, over-sensitive to harmless comments, lack self-awareness, avoidant, impatient and may overall not know how to handle relationship difficulties as fluidly as older women. Nothing to be shy about. There are many stories here, where clearly, the woman needed to grow up, in order for the couple to succeed.
There are enough people on both ends of the spectrum. Some are mature, some are not. EMK actually agrees with this to an extent.
He broke up with a year-old to marry a seasoned year-old for these reasons.
I also very much agree with you that age-gaps where the woman is older should be proceeded with caution. Additionally, I believe the reverse is true as well, especially if the woman is under 30 and the man is much older.
Just under 30, it is a big deal. No matter what gender. As always Evan is brilliant. I totally agree. This man has no ambition, no character, no purpose in life. He would be a bad deal for any woman, successful or not. Please do not waste your time with a worthless man, no matter how handsome, sweet or agreable he is.
Attraction is blinding you, this man can only drag you in a black pit. You have to be self re. Wow, I had no idea that having no ambition means you are worthless, have no character, and have no purpose in life.
Character has nothing to do with money, job or ambition. What these women lack is wisdom. A few of them quit their professional jobs, lawyers and doctors btw. In the end these men decided to quit their job and work in a different profession.
I also remember a lawyer with a forum post. He made a lot of money. He worked so much just to have the latest new things and still have money to invest. He came to realize he was unhappy and decided to cut his hours. He decided to work to live not to slave to money. If money is your end goal for happiness you will very disappointed. This is the kind of advice I wish more men would take, actually. It is so difficult to find women who are fiscally responsible and have goals that lead to any kind of income stability or wealth accumulation.
In addition, many women are saddled with substantial student loan debt, and in some cases, substantial credit card debt.
So many men would be happy to settle down with these types of women, and I can think of more than a few instances where the man actually paid off her debts. Both of these conditions would have to be present. It is much MUCH harder to find a fiscally responsible woman than it is to find a fiscally responsible man.
That is so sexiest! Men are better at handling money than women. Why is that? Please explain McLovin. Men spend their money on what matters to them, like cars, sports, entertainment, recreational, etc. But since men have traditionally been the bread winners, and women home makers, they just naturally have more insight on what it takes to be fiscally responsible? Many men I know have spent thousands of dollars on fender guitars, motorcycles, nice cars, and trips with their buddies.
Oh, and beer. Who usually pay for dates? Who pays for marriages? A motorcycle is cheaper than a car and better on gas. A guitar can make money if you play at a club. Women have nice cars too so what. I have two exes and a girlfriend who are like this. Clare, with respect, please read carefully. No generalization is being made. Anyone can make gross and insulting generalizations.Things You Should Never Say About Money In A Relationship - The Financial Diet
Hold the phone. Where are all these men who are looking for responsible women and settling for spendy bimbos instead? In my dismal corner of the dating universe, men are turned on by flaky chicks who need to be rescued. Most of my female friends take the same approach to life that I do, and like me, they have no trouble getting dates.
But when these men find out that we are gainfully employed and are looking for a partner and not a sugar daddy, they disappear. If you are independent and can leave at any time, they are held to a higher standard - that of partner.
They have to dominate. I can say my fiscal responsibility enabled me to rattle the cage in my abusive marriage, and unlock the cage and leave. I think this is just your experience. I work with several women who support or are at least the bigger bread winners in their homes.
Their husbands, who have always made less are generally happy based on what I see. Stereotypes usually have merit or truth, but when you auto-cast everyone into ityou primarily harm yourself. What they thought was going to happen instead, I have no idea. I have great news for you: when you adjust for work type and work amount, the gender pay gap essentially vanishes. As a professional woman myself, I am self supporting and independent. Grow up boys. Women are getting degrees at higher rates than men now.
We are coming out of the shadows and expect you to stand on equal ground. Not higher. Not lower, just equal. On the flip side of this, I also met a man who posted nothing but his very high salary on his profile. No likes, hobbies, politics, picture, no description of any kind. I find it amusing that men still expect money to open doors for them, but then resent the women they attract with it.
You claim you want equality but true equality means men have a right to be what they want to be including a lack of financial bread-earning not what you have decided they must be to please you. Lol Chance, u made the mistake of making a more general negative comment about women, on a blog mainly for women.
Personally in my own experience, I do find that men are less extravagant in their spending in relation to their income, so I have some agreement with u there. As there are plenty of other women who are nothing like the women you describe, I conclude that you keep picking the women with the same flaws. You are the common denominator here. You said when you were dating as in the past tense so maybe you have found a long term partner who is different.
I guess I was pretty good at screening the bad ones out. But man, looking around at the other couples I know, those ladies can really blow through some money. I think twinkle is right in that a lot of men will put up with these types of women if they look good enough, so these guys are definitely contributing to the problem. When I take a lunch break during the work week, there would likely be a lot less women in the cafe sipping their two-hour lattes between tennis and yoga if their husbands actually held them accountable.
It makes him feel like a great provider and he can complain boast to his friends about how much of his money she spends, which is a way of telling his friends that he can afford it. Anyway, I wish I could take a two hour lunch during the work week, I only get an hour.
Perhaps there would be fewer men spying on women for two hours at the cafe, and making assumptions if bosses would hold more men accountable. I must live in a completely different Universe than you, because in my world, most PEOPLE exercise financial responsibility, but I have seen a handful of people, both men and women make some poor financial decisions.
Something you said is extremely rare for women. Do some research Chance, I have not seen any studies that show that there are extreme difference when it comes to men and women and money management. I think there are two main reasons younger men still allow this type of thing. The second reason is, of course, sex. The second reason is all on men as they are most definitely contributing to the problem in this regard. Who knows? There are certainly other possibilities: they could go home first to berate the nanny, or they could go to the doggie bakery.
Also, debutante season is upon us, so they could be going to pick out dresses for their daughters. However, surely you can come up with something better than comparing my posts on this subject to another poster on another subject who directly presented something as fact when, apparently, she had no evidence to support it.
Will you sling comments in her direction that are as equally critical as the ones you threw in mine? Sorry, MikeTo, but you are making blatantly false generalizations. Both men and women overspend. My boyfriend had three motorcycles at one point. And a brand new BMW. And, not every guy who has a guitar plays at clubs.
My boyfriend has 2 fender guitars expensive. The ONLY reason he has more money saved is because his parents paid for his undergraduate degree, and he has been working.
If you date a woman who is not dependent on you she will expect you to up your game, have something worthwhile to say, be equally supportive. I just love it when men limit their choices to the pampered, primped and perfect princesses out of their own insecurity and then complain that all women are princesses. I think one source of confusion is that a lot of women seem to think that if they pay their bills on time and maintain a high credit score, it means that they are financially responsible.
The later you are in life whilst dating, the more you should consider this in choosing your partner, in my opinion. I think women like to tell each other this because it makes them feel better when a man is not interested in them. Most men love it when a woman brings something to the table. Establishing any career. If you disagree with this concept then you probably reside within the vicinity of a very liberal college.
I actually agree with Chance on this issue. If men adhered to the same standards as the two female posters above then virtually no one would get together or make it to the phase of long-term dating. Shaukat, do we agree?
I may have not made my point very clearly. What I was trying to say is that men should follow the same advice that EMK is giving this woman, which is to avoid dating people who are financially irresponsible and have no drive or direction.
There are exceptions, of course, such as a failed business venture or a loss of job that results in financial instability where responsible saving habits cannot even fully mitigate potential negative outcomes.
Well, you know that I agree with you. Evan tells women to look for husbands of fine character and for men to look for wives who make them feel good. I know that women of poor character and that includes being irresponsible with money can make a guy feel great. Hi Henriette, does Evan actually tell men to look for wives who make them feel good? I know that he points out to women that men usually go for women who make them feel good, and that women should make men feel appreciated, etc.
I assumed you might have been talking tongue in cheek. Look, I agree that financial irresponsibility is a problem when it leads someone to burden another for an extended period of time, and when financial support leads to a mentality of entitlement on the part of the individual receiving the support. In my view, passion for something is far more important than financial success, and the two are not synonymous with one another.
Your passion may lead you to riches, or it may not. Fair enough. Chance, with respect, if some man wants to pay off the debts of a woman if it will help her to become his wife and that is what he wants, who are you to have a say in the matter? I know people who are bad with money who are otherwise extremely kind, wonderful people - in fact they often got themselves into a bit of debt from being too generous.
Did I say I wanted a say in the matter? Why are you so offended by observations? But hey, kudos to them. I have always paid for my own nails, hair, apartments, clothes, shoes, bags etc. I could never depend on a man to do much of anything for me. Add to that growing up without a dad. I am not a woman that got doted on or taken to nice places by men. And while I know that my life and its challenges are ultimately MY responsibilty,someone that loves me should want to assist in any way that they can.
I have no degree yet im in school nowschool loan debt, bad credit, tax issues, no bank account and no savings. Now, I also have not ever dated a guy that made more money than me, even though I now only make 30k and plan to make waaaay more. LOL but that was indeed the case. I am also finding that men are more attached to their careers than women. Why do you think dates are still a social norm?
So while women can and do make their own money, in case of emergencies, child care, life expenses etc, women like to insure stability and security in relationships through properly maintaining and accruing finances. Or when my car broke down and neither of us could afford to get it fixed.
These things would put a stressful strain on any couple. In essence, I think that it boils down to resources and how you choose to share those resources with the ones that you love. Love is priceless. But it unfortunately does not pay any bill. Rents and the cost of living in urban areas are crazy. Roommates are essential not an option, particularly for those who barely scrape by on their wages. That said, I think too many people in their 20s live beyond their means.
Eating Ramen noodles and NOT going clubbing are seen as tortures they avoid. When I was struggling, I ate Ramen noodles night after night. Lived in the cheapest apt I could find that was close to work. Bills got paid before I did, meaning no luxuries unless I had extra money.
Not more than a couple hundred bucks, but I had one. I only used my credit card when there was no other choice, like for unexpected car repairs, and I paid off the credit cards as fast as I could. Most men are happy dating a hot waitress with a high school education. Most women need a man with financial stability to provide and protect the family. Thanks Brit. Works the same for both sexes. Both sexes look for the best they can get in the opposite sex. The only difference is, men needing sex more than women on the average will quickly settle.
A wOman with a good job and close friends has no need to settle especially if God bless her she already has a kid or two. Successful women hold all the cards of they can learn to be humble, respectful and more feminine. It takes a certain kind of personality to go that far professionally as a woman and some of not most feminine gets lost in the midst of all that education. What do you have to offer to a successful man?
No sane man will date a woman who is only into money. Why would a guy need to date when he can get woman easily. He would expect women to pay their own way dutch. Shaukat: my two long-term relationships were with lovely guys who are educated, can carry on intelligent conversation are kind and supportive. Neither has assets, savings or smart investments.
Alas, this turned out to be highly relevant. But, both of them were dreamers and at some point being with someone who has no idea about money or what it actually costs to maintain a middle class lifestyle makes one feel as though one is with a clueless child rather than with a responsible man.
But what does that mean as far as the pursuing? Does that make it okay for her to pursue, since she is financially stable and probably making more than most guys?
5 Love Lessons My Financially-Unstable Relationships Taught Me . If the person you are dating makes you feel shitty about what you do for a. When you first start dating someone, financial stability may rank low on the list of attributes your sweetheart must have. But the longer you date. Should I continue dating my long term boyfriend and eventually marry him even though he is financially unstable?? My boyfriend is poor but he loves me very much and so do I. Should I dump him just because he is poor?? I'm dating a very nice guy, but he has no financial stability and.
I only wish I had it 16 years ago when I was dating. Evan, you should be getting some kind of rewards for doing what I consider a public service. There is soooo much bad dating advise out there. One is now happily married a medical doctor who chose a wonderful, kind-hearted but less educated man and another one is in a relationship an accountant dating an adoring and caring car mechanic. To throw another aspect into the debate. You have 2nd time arounders like myself.
I obviously still love my husband and will always hold him in my heart. But most men in my age bracket have had prior marriages. I have yet to come across a fellow widower so mostly divorced. One guy I was dating was heavy in debt from a bad property decision in his marriage and still paying it off. He also likes to buy a coffee everyday regardless of his circumstances.
Extermely hard working. Great qualities. The next guy lost his house in divorce is renting and paying child support. Both can contribute minimally financially if we moved in or married so I have to decide whether to overlook them because they may never be financially stable.
I am in a similar situation I am 46, divorced, no kids. The man I have been with for nearly a year is 50 with 3 kids. He has a foreclosure against his credit and horrible financial habits. I have a credit score over and significant investments, so hearing about how he handles his finances and bills literally gives me a stomach ache.
I envision a future where I am retired at 60 and can travel - and all of my planning and savings and k contributions since I was in my twenties will get me to that goal. We have a great time together, he treats me like gold and says he would do anything for me. The take away from my cursory online research was that there is no clear superior gender in regards to managing finances.
I did not find ONE article that said that majority of women were extremely financially irresponsible and that the majority of men were extremely financially irresponsible.
I did not find ONE article that put either gender in the superior camp financially. I think the stereotype of all females as careless shop-aholics, racking up debt and then looking for a sugar daddy to bail them out is just that, a well worn out stereotype with no basis in truth. Fodder for men on mysogynist websites.
And as far as I am concerned, student debt is not a character problem, but a far reaching problem with our current economy. Also, my observations are pretty much inline with what I found online. I have seen men and women of all income levels who seemed to demonstrate average to excellent financial management, and I have seen people of both genders and varying incomes who were very careless with their money.
Which is the only thing I can do really that might actually make him feel better.
Am I Being Too Materialistic By Giving Up on a Financially Unstable Man?
Here is a somewhat related comment. I am known as a saver and I found what appears to be a spender. My whole life and modeling gigs have been devoted to saving to help a man start a family.
I work hard in NYC and I met a man that has a great job, but is in the negative. I am well in the positive by the definition of a millionaire, I am one. What do you suggest I do?
Move on or become the breadwinner? I am so traditional and I work over hours a week and I am tired and feel alone.
I have always believed in equality. He says I am money focused and care too much about money. He has been partying. He is older than I and I am a published model. I have a live in partner and we actually loaned a car, we then talked prior to purchasing it that we should split the bill for paying for it.
However, he suddenly gets laid off from one job to another and gets a bit picky on finding a job so I end up paying the rent, bills and the car.
The downside is that my salary is not sufficient to take care of these things. Right now he tried being a Sales Man in a Car company, from the suit to shoes to everything I needed to buy him because there is an attire requirement. I am starting to feel so exhausted and frustrated knowing that all my money goes down the drain. I feel so fed up, plus none of his family member helps us.
I want him to move out because he is adding up to all my financial burdens but then again he does not have anywhere to go because even his family relies on me. He is worthy of love still. Would you want someone to give up on you that easily?
What ever happened to loyalty and working hard at relationships? What happened to loving someone unconditionally? This flippant mentality on relationships is exactly why our divorce rate is so high and our interpersonal relationships are so impersonal. Nothing in life worth having is ever easy.
Why is it so hard for people to give up on their dreams when it comes to money or careers but not relationships with other humans? Our society as a whole is so shallow and superficial. I am in relationship with my boyfriend for two years. But about three months back, he started avoiding me.
So I thought he was not interested in me. Then, I knew that he has some financial problems. I helped him. Then, after some time, we had some misunderstandings. And I spoke harshly to him. He started to withdraw from me completely. He said he needs time. I always threaten him emotionally by crying. Then after some time, I really gave him some time.
I asked his best friends to figure it out. Then, I gave him a surprise meet. Then, I gave him lots of space. I will just send him motivational quotes once in a while. Once I called him. He talks as if nothing happens. But on the same night, he send me a text asking me to hate him.
But the truth is my dad is in the midst of giving the green signal. He also has inferiority complex that I am wealthier than him and he always needs my financial support. I was also planning to give him surprises and make him feel special and tell him that he is worth.
I will admit when it comes to money, I can be a bit reckless in terms of buying something too quickly without doing my due diligence which brings me to the situation im in now. Me and my lady have 2 young kids, both of us work demanding jobs in healthcare, so absences is not a good thing. So I went back to Craigslist I got my lady car off there also a while back, u win some on C. L u loose some in search of a temporary ride just until I had enough bred to get something more reliable. That car was pretty cheap I got, but had to put some tires and work into it, these 2 cars and the work I must put into it is putting a financial strain on my income.
I decided to rid the car and got some of he money back. Now im back on the market car shopping. I met this amazing man who was very attentive and affectionate to me and we matched up on so many levels. Before we even met, he had lost a job and had to temporarily move in with his dad at He also lived 2 hours from me but was always happy to come down here to spend time with me once a week. He even wants to still see me from time to time.
He wants me to leave him due to his financial problems and told me that he is not a good guy for me. He said he needs time and space. I have no idea what to do.
I told him i was going on vacation and i did, but when i came back from vacation he was working at my job! We are both going through financial hardship and I love him to death and would eventually like more out of the relationship. We are both in this way because he is helping me struggle my way through nursing school.
But the hardship is making him depressed. I keep giving him outs so he can have his life back and all he says is you are a part of my life and this struggle is for our future. Which is even more confusing. Because I know it is because of this struggle that he is not pursuing anything with me, which to me is ruining the future for us because I feel sometimes he resents me. Mitch Vandell - Poor-Sucker Syndrome.
Men are constantly fed with impressions that lure them into thinking that self-sabotaging behaviors will reward them and should be pursued. After reading your response above regarding men in a financial crisis. I am in a very similar situation. I have been dating this guy for 2 years. Things were going pretty good up until a few weeks ago when he suggested that we be friends.
We are older 59 and 61 yrs old and he contracts himself out with his trucking business semi. Now he is behind in all of his bills including rent. Just trying to give him his space and keeping myself busy. He has still to recover. He has lost many clients and income. He may still lose his home which has been in the balance for 2 years. He has borrowed to pay bills. I met him before these tragedies and we were so close to a loving committed relationship and life was great.
He drifts in and out of my life since.
And I tell him I will. But it is so hard to watch him struggle and not know what to do to support him. And what to do when he distances himself like he has just recently. What do I do that is loving and supportive then???
She said: I think it depends on WHY is he financially unstable and IF it's a So let's be open to dating the guy who is trying to get back on his. I strongly feel that at his age of 34, a person needs to either 1) be financially secure or 2) From starting out in the dating game, to pursuing a serious, long-?term. I've been dating someone for a couple months now and, like a lot of people, he is experiencing Ask a Guy: Dating a Guy with Financial Problems .. He has unstable work, and last month, just before losing his job, he broke up with me.
How do I help??? We had the best time until one day he accused me semi-jokingly of having his balls in my handbag after he made me breakfast one morning. He said he felt emasculated by making me pancakes! The very next day I saw him, and he was a completely different person. All the fun and smiles were gone, and things have not been the same since 6 weeks now. He invited me to his boat 2 weeks ago and spent the whole time discussing the new unsavory job and the job search with little emotion.
I so wish there was something I could do to help - he is so fantastic. I am moving on, but do continue to hope that things improve and that he might come back to me one day. A whole lifetime has probably passed since your posting, but I feel the same. My guy was making overwhen I met him in in his own business.
By his business took a sudden turn and he lost clients. Obama economy hit him and his clients. He was able to hang on for a while but the last 2 years he could not.
We were developing a wonderful relationship and then then economy tanked. But I can relate to your post. The smiles are gone, the frequent phone calls are gone. So how do we help and support these men? We gals really need to know, this is not a unique situation.
Please write the column on relationship limbo. Is it the same for guys or usually just a girl problem? I can very well relate to youthe job hunting, and all sorts of financial assistance just to help him get through those difficult times. He has unstable work, and last month, just before losing his job, he broke up with me. I told him ill be giving him space, since that is what he wanted in the first place.
We had limited contact ever since, and when we talk, he ates me about his job hunting ventures. I can see his restlessness to make himself better, but his coldness and uncaring ways pushes me away from him all the more. Just last week, he expressed his intention to start a small business with me-with me funding it. He on the other hand will manage the business. But with the current state of mind, i am not sure if this will work. I was full of bitterness when he offered this and told him that i could easily get another partner for the business venture without enduring the emotional pain i could experience when he goes to depression again.
I know you want to help, but men prefer to solve things on their own. Many of them shut down during the process. His actions are not so much a reflection of how he feels about you but more about how he feels about his situation.
Dating a financially unstable man presents challenges to any relationship. We've outlined common lessons and strategies for anyone in this. I decided to get back into the dating world and I met this guy online - four weeks ago. So it's all still very early and very new. But a big worry for me is that is has. Many Singaporeans think it's SUCH an advantage to date a richer person. Well, there are dimensions they haven't considered, and we're not.
I t may hurt but who knows what the future holds. Your love will be returned when the right person reflects your light. What do you need, what do you want?
Thank you ladies!